Hmmm....
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Hmmm....

By:

Krustydog.3072
   Member

Posted On: 01/05/2015 at 12:13 PM

The difference imo between last week and this week? One is Kai got some night coverage they didn't have before. The other seems to be some indecisiveness on the part of some commanders. If you lead a group to an objective you are like the captain of a ship-last one to leave. Too many time I start fighting only to see the commander half a screen away running for the hills. If you wipe-you wipe, you all go to the same place and regroup. I know this is not real life but it kind of is. If one of the commanders I trust is not on I will just cherry pick and harass because I hate being left to the wolves then having to run all the way back just to have it happen again. I think Kai is getting bigger zergs together and they outnumber us so with the death of white swords maybe we need to break off into 3 groups of 10 rather than 1 larger group of 30 (or whatever the case may be) and hit and run multiple targets. Their zerg cant be 3 places at the same time. Keep them chasing us rather than capping the whole map. Maybe even find the map they aren't on. Sometimes we are outnumbered and still engage them in the area they have the greatest numbers. Art of war=be like water, flow around resistance. Just some thoughts. I am still having a blast and have confidence we can turn this around. btw-ex ranger (82nd) and the Indian style of hit and run is still taught in the academies when outnumbered. NEVER fight a superior enemy on their terms or the place of their choosing. I have one question-do the engi mortars have enough range and hitting power to clear keep walls? Do they have more range than an arrow cart? Stinking arrow carts!

Reason:

Member Response:

By:

Commander Foghladha.2506
   Site Admin of Gaiscioch na Rall

Replied On: 01/05/2015 at 12:33 PM

Guys,

The Difference between last week and this week is simple.

Time off of work.

Many of us didn't have to work last week so we played at hours we don't normally play. Population at my events this week has been cut in half of what it was last week. That's not because people are lazy, it's because people are at work.

Don't get discouraged, We got a win against Kaineng last week and we should hold onto that. This week by having them win, they might bump up into Tier 7 giving us a much wounded Borlis Pass to fight. Within the next 5 weeks we likely will be in Tier 7. Just keep going out there and having a good time.

I agree with the sediments of breaking your zerg into small units. That is what worked so well for us the past 4 weeks, we should continue to work as a organized group of small units. Keep the enemy chasing you, then ambush them when they don't expect it.

Benjamin Foghladha
Community Manager, SanctumofRall.com
Founder and Activities Director, The Gaiscioch Family [GSCH]

By:

Commander socialbudderfly.5970
   Member of Devilz Prayer

Replied On: 01/05/2015 at 02:14 PM

As Collisto always tends to tell me when EVIL is out there with our small 7-10 man group (and he has me start commanding out there on our weekend nights), we want the enemy to play on our terms, if that means having one force of maybe 10 people, and then a smaller group of say 3 to trick the enemy on thinking we are on say the NW tower or heading that way instead of telling them we are actually at SE tower or Hills. Without the swords giveaway, we need to be more clever when it comes to deceiving our enemy from our actual location.

It isn't always easy, but we should keep them on their toes at all times. Break into smaller groups, start planning clever caps to pull them elsewhere while grabbing a larger target. Have more scouts if need be to help make sure the enemy is playing on our terms for the battle at hand.

I'm still fairly new to commanding myself, but this is what I've learned so far on those Saturday/Sunday nights with Collisto when we go out there to take over the world. I don't think we are starting to get discouraged, but more along the lines of work and/or burnt out from pulling off quite the success last week. Also, College spring term is starting up again and if any SOR players are in college, we'll see them at different hours once more.

Keep up the good fight, don't get discouraged, and if you need a pick-me-up, try some Rainbow Golem rush ;)

Devilzprayer|Devilzsorrow|Zyeva Vitale|Zephie Rosemay|Nightzprayer|Lyrium Moonfeather

Guild Leader and Founder of Devilz Prayer [EVIL] www.devilzprayer.enjin.com

By:

Commander Dharkon.6481
   Member

Replied On: 01/05/2015 at 03:55 PM

 

By:

CommanderFoghladha.2506
   Site Admin of Gaiscioch na Rall

Replied On: 01/05/2015 at 12:33 PM

Guys,

The Difference between last week and this week is simple.

Time off of work.

Many of us didn't have to work last week so we played at hours we don't normally play. Population at my events this week has been cut in half of what it was last week. That's not because people are lazy, it's because people are at work.

 

 

 

I forbid you all to have jobs!  Come back and fight !



» Edited on: 2015-01-05 15:56:39

-Dharkon
Member of The Gaiscioch Family

By:

Commander iTater.4209
   Member of Pink Quaggan Squad

Replied On: 01/05/2015 at 04:27 PM

Engi mortars, in my opinion, aren't useful at all. Then again, I play guardian more than anything else, so I can't offer you an evaluation of what they're for. I don't see them much in WvW, and a year ago when I had my engineer I stuck with the crate more than anything else. If you want to clear walls of siege, elementalist meteor shower of doom and despair is pretty effective - staff, fire, number 5. Sounds like a take-out order.

 

A large force is good for countering other groups, and that's something that you need sometimes. EotM is a good example of this - a large group snowkitten into a humongous zerg until they wipe once or twice, and people get frustrated and leave. Granted this won't always be the case, but it happens. Smack them into the ground enough times and they'll for the most part give up. Playing the point game is about being quick and sneaky, which I don't like while I command because I'm here for a different form of WvW, but other commanders excel at it. Havoc groups do this well, but I haven't seen too many out there on a regular basis working in conjunction with another group. Sometimes it's just hard to find someone who wants to split off from the larger group and lead a smaller force if you don't know them well. GSCH can do this because they work well with each other and know what the other commanders can do - I, being mostly solo, can only trust those I run with frequently, such as Eko and Crow.

Professor Bannister, engineer

By:

Commander Jeff.5139
   Member

Replied On: 01/05/2015 at 05:05 PM

The usual counters to ACs in obstructed placements are Omega Golems, Arrow carts and Dragon's tooth (ele) though its also possible for a coordinated effort to pull the AC user off then take him down.  Most though aren't aware enough to place an AC in an obstructed position (i.e. throw it on the side of the wall and not on top of it) and most AoEs should be able to take those down.

Kaineng has always had relatively strong numbers during our off peak hours, and even just before the last season they would keep up with hour strong peak hours with off-peak capping and on occasion steal the win.  

Sad thing for them now is that the more they play the coverage game the more they push themselves up to tier 7 where they tend to lose people permanently as they can't handle it yet, whereas we can still have fun and relatively competitive match-ups.

Hopefully in the event that Kaineng does go up to T7 before us, it will give us enough time to prepare and build up enough to be able to be competitive and have a good time with our T7 rivals in the near future.

By:

Commander iTater.4209
   Member of Pink Quaggan Squad

Replied On: 01/05/2015 at 05:07 PM

As of this post, Kaineng is 21st and Borlis Pass has moved down. I haven't had much experience with BP but it should be interesting to see what they bring to the table.

Professor Bannister, engineer

By:

Commander synosius.9876
   Member of Seriously Over Rated

Replied On: 01/05/2015 at 06:33 PM

we had a pretty bad showing saturday and sunday. 

there was multiple times I ran by a tower and some nubcake throws a ram... 7/10 ppl following my tag stay and loiter around auto attacking the door.  then the Ka show up with double the numbers but Im a safe distance away and all I can do is face palm.

then we get in team fights, 1 thief runs to our back line and I exaggerate not at all, everyone but me starts chasing him in circles.  the thief just stealths and hops away.  the enemy over runs us cause they all still looking for the 1 thief that might be behind them.

there comes a time when you need to simply get better. sloppy play and bad tactics will not work anymore and we are getting crushed for not improving along with Ka.

By:

Krustydog.3072
   Member

Replied On: 01/05/2015 at 07:04 PM

I am taking this opportunity this week and leveling a thief. I will start getting in ts and will report to commanders the enemies movements as well as capping an opportune supply base now and then. Knowledge is power.

By:

Commander Mistress Collisto.1546
   Member

Replied On: 01/05/2015 at 11:57 PM

Haha Synosius, 

"then we get in team fights, 1 thief runs to our back line and I exaggerate not at all, everyone but me starts chasing him in circles.  the thief just stealths and hops away.  the enemy over runs us cause they all still looking for the 1 thief that might be behind them."

I am active on a forum outside of this one for our WvW, and I will pass something on to everyone that a member of SIN told me...

"And please do pick on our thieves! We're trying to encourage our guild to run a bit more variation, as we're starting to train a bit on group play, and to many thieves aren't very good at that"

They admit they have way to many thieves, and many of the commanders are upset about that as it limits there open field.  But just passing on that they know they have these people out there and are not happy at how many or what they all do.

I posted an encouraging wrap up in another thread to last weeks victory, I would encourage people to read it.  Remember if we win all the time we will move up tiers even if we are not ready for it.  Enjoy our victory last week, know that we are not at the bottom, and you all know what we are capable of.  Its only a matter of time before we start winning all of these T8 matches and move up, lets not race to the top but instead work on building our community and training our new leaders of tomorrow. :)



» Edited on: 2015-01-05 23:59:08

Mistress Collisto|Molly Oakenheart|Lena Andersdotter|Heather Jones
Guild Leader of [JADE] www.Immortalizedin.enjin.com

By:

Commander synosius.9876
   Member of Seriously Over Rated

Replied On: 01/06/2015 at 11:33 AM

engi is prolly the best anti thief class and the was perhaps the primary reason I started playing one.  I mained a thief for many months and as good as I was, there were engis I could not beat 1v1.  lately Ive seen alot more engis out in the field and Im pretty happy about this because its a strong class that can fill many roles.  on the other end of the spectrum thief is prolly the best class vs rangers...

anyway, on to my next point.

the way we are going to make our wvw presence grow is by showing everyone we are having fun.  a fun time is not clicking respawn every 10m!  if we are constantly getting beat down in fights we should be winning, ppl are going to log off and say to themselves... these guys suck, I dont want to play with them any more. 

now before I get all the back lash saying... oh but we're casual, oh but we're pvx, dont tell me how to play the game!  Im gonna reply... I dont care how you rationalize being bad.  If new comers are impressed with our skill they will stay, and while we are still going to lose the ppt game for a while, our forces will grow.  we will have fun smashing faces and so will the ppl who join us.

I am asking each of you out there to be introspective, learn and improve.  it is through personal growth that true self esteem is rooted.  This is not a journey we take alone, a community combines its foundation, its roots and becomes a mighty tree.  With actions as examples that others imitate we establish traditions and the traditions that are found useful and repeated become a culture. 

we have reached the limit of what positive thinking can do for us, its time to grow and mature our community.

By:

Krustydog.3072
   Member

Replied On: 01/06/2015 at 11:17 PM

what spec engi are you syn? I have a 30 engi but been working on thief because they annoy me so much. and necros. them dang necros. thank goodness their slow.

By:

Commander synosius.9876
   Member of Seriously Over Rated

Replied On: 01/07/2015 at 10:34 AM

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpdr9dxELseRCbBNqxAqOIyOWlPHhAkUA-T1RBABd8AAse/hyU+hoOgGVCOq6PAcBACAgAczbGAO6RP6RP6RbmzcmzcmzsQAlnAA-w

is the generalist build Im currently running.  Ive had several successful 2v1 using this.  the key to making this build work is combo fields.  example: healing turret, cleansing burst water field, detonate turret blast, rocket shoes blast. turn around, swap to EG and drop super elixir light field to stand in and aa to stack bleeds.  when enemy closes again, acid bomb to dmg and combo retaliation.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqalUUpdrFYxELseRCbBNqxAqOIyOWlPHhAkUA-TFyCABAcCAq4BAcoSwOV/5LlfQv/gg6AyTLQAAEgZWmBwRP6RP6RPazcmzcmzcmlCYRlVA-w

best anti condi thief setup.  swap to p/p so you are slightly more condi focused yourself, thief have good condi cleanse but its slow.  with p/p you will overload their defense.  if you can foresee tangling with a condi heavy build swap to elixir C. 

when facing a thief, important things to keep in mind: alchemy VI protection injection.  power thief will often trait for slight of hand which dazes on steal.  the steal is often prelude to Cloak and dagger, which is the prelude to a back stab.  if you have the trait protection injection, when the thief dazes you, a passive proc protection buff is activated greatly diminishing the burst to follow. 

when facing condi thief, save elixir C for the steals, CnD, sneak attack, shadow strike rotation.  you will know you just got hit by this when you see poison, confusion, torment and about 6-8 bleeds.  calmly activate your elixir C and turn them into buffs! as the condi thief tries to hurt you, simply rotate between healing turret, super elixir, toss elixir C and if you rly wanted to be untouchable put a sigil of cleansing in place of your hydromancy.  when condi thief uses dagger storm, counter with fumigate from EG, this will not be reflected and it cleanses your friends who would other wise be accumulating bleed stacks.  when the spinning ends, use one of your many cleanses for the bleeds on yourself but the thief is likely downed now.

the reason cele is popular with engi is because nearly every aspect of the class is hybrid along with many sources of heal.  if you dont have the resources to make cele yet, but still want a hybrid build the stats you should try to reach... 1700 power, 30% crit chance, 22k hp, 2400 armor, 1000 condi dmg, 180% fero.  cele also just has more stats overall if you compare totals so its not rly possible to make an equal hybrid combining other sets.

By:

Commander jdjitsu.7895
   Member of Ecto Nightmare

Replied On: 01/07/2015 at 12:50 PM

Yeah Eko, thats partly the reason I started working on my Engine. I love it. All condis but fear, unless you take rune of nightmare. You can even run front line with them. The fields you can drop are nice also. Probably my favorite class. Can't wait till I'm much more proficient with it. And at 80. I Love my thief, if I'm trying hard I can destroy most classes and troll groups to slow them down.  One I have a hard time with is engine when they have knock back turrets and blind me to death. Most engines aren't that good tbh, but the potential is just amazing. My friend just bought gw2 and I made him roll an engie. Told him to read Wolfineer's and a few other's Engie blogs. I'm at work so I can't read your build well on my phone, I'll check it out later. I'm guessing u run celestial p/s gren/tool kit cause I see u land the magnet/pry bar a lot. And grenading walls...you're one of the few ppl who main a engie..

*Xeero Cool-Mez,Admiral Wiggin-Engi,Arya Sinfelle-Teef,Dirtyfilthyrotten-Necro,Ender Tha Xenocide-Rev
Filthydirtyrotten-Warrior

By:

Commander jdjitsu.7895
   Member of Ecto Nightmare

Replied On: 01/07/2015 at 01:02 PM

Being a condi thief myself usually, i can say if u have trouble against off hand dagger ones, have blinds, stuns, knockbacks, immob ready. Can't go stealth if you're blind,immobile or far from target(for the most part). Have your turn 180 button handy for backstab ones. I also count to around 3 after they do go stealth off a Cloak n Dagger and dodge or kite(use immunities if u have em). I could type pages about fighting thieves. 

But to get back to SoR's wvw. There's a couple real easy quick things I think we could do better  that would help us get to make us a higher caliber... When in large groups especially, people aren't blasting the fields put down much. I don't follow the large groups as much as I roam, but when I do, I have my blast finisher ready. 

Another is when we're taking objectives like towers. Taking down cannons, oil, or building siege fast aren't happening quick enough than they should many times. It's not always like that, but if we tightened it up, it would be awesome.  Also, when a rams on a gate for example, the ppl not on the ram really shouldn't be dps-ing the door unless the commander asks for it. imo the best way is to have the group fall back a bit and scout to see if enemies are coming and gank them before they can get inside. Have those immobilize/knockdowns ready so we can burn them down. If they can't get inside, they can't use siege to hold onto it..Taz is awesome like that I've noticed. It works great. I know you don't always want to announce that you're there with the swords gone atm, but you keep tight, maybe stacked, and have scouts out..

I'm usually at work during server meetings, so maybe this has been discussed though. I think in a lot of these cases there are some newer wvw players, and things that are obvious to most of us aren't to a lot of them. We have some great commanders, they'll eventually learn from them. Youtube is a nice tool to learn wvw and class mechanics though...

 


» Edited on: 2015-01-07 13:42:25



» Edited on: 2015-01-07 15:41:50

*Xeero Cool-Mez,Admiral Wiggin-Engi,Arya Sinfelle-Teef,Dirtyfilthyrotten-Necro,Ender Tha Xenocide-Rev
Filthydirtyrotten-Warrior

By:

Commander synosius.9876
   Member of Seriously Over Rated

Replied On: 01/07/2015 at 05:58 PM

arya mentions the old build I ran for along time but first heres a little back story...

I first started commanding on a thief and then there was a trait glitch with hidden thief and mug.  my thief style had been refined over many hundreds of hours. after those 2 traits stopped working together I was having difficulty adapting and breaking my old habits.  after about a month of aimless experimenting I settled on engi and in the beginning I was not a good engi.  tool kit magnet prybar is a very ez rotation to pull off and grenades are very powerful once you learn to aim them.

knowing almost nothing about engi I just put my traits as 6 6 0 0 2 with p/p and wrecked faces with superior dmg.  it was good enough and I needed to get back into commanding.  Until the past month or so I didnt feel I had to time to go back into spvp and refine my skills.  Now that we have other commanders stepping up Ive been busy developing new tricks and  I finally got through the last 9 glory ranks too. 

what I posted before was just the current build Im using, it will still evolve.  My current direction is trying to get away from back pack regenerator and maybe find a way to use thumper turret.  before when I said learn and improve I mean that for myself as well, its a process that nvr ends. 

By:

Commander jdjitsu.7895
   Member of Ecto Nightmare

Replied On: 01/08/2015 at 10:55 AM

Exactly. I've got about 500hours on my thief and I figure new things about the class all the time. I've used every build, I have 5 or 6 complete armor/weapons. I like venoms or condi bunker for wvw, s/d for PvP at the moment. But I can't wait till I get my engie to 80, its hard cause I love to play my thief still. So it's been taking a while. I don't bring my engie to wvw yet cause I don't want to be rally bait. Been going eotm mostly. Yeah, its kinda boring, but pve is quite boring to me. Another week and I'll be there though. Then I'll work on crafting my celestial. Ugh...

*Xeero Cool-Mez,Admiral Wiggin-Engi,Arya Sinfelle-Teef,Dirtyfilthyrotten-Necro,Ender Tha Xenocide-Rev
Filthydirtyrotten-Warrior

By:

Harakael.5830
   Member of Gaiscioch na Rall

Replied On: 01/08/2015 at 01:35 PM

Hi guys :D

I wanted to share my opinion on some things ive been noticing :D

I know i never talk at night wvw on TS mostly cus im shy or that im 2 used to RP on chat :P but im always listening,

I must also add that im casual player so i dont play everyday and on weekdays i mostly play from 2-4 hours,

Well ive been noticing a lot of CC offer nowadays and i think its great!! what i have also noticed is that sometimes we lack on "Unity of Command", (i beg ya pardon on english my grammar isnt what it used to be for a non-native speaker),

This unity of command sometimes confuses the likes of me, id like to refer to me as a grunt :3, so i like to take orders and do it!!!

For that when you listen 2-3 voices on TS talking on what to do and you listen to one saying -go right- and go right on middle of a fight to then realize that commander is going left and you listened someone else  that "recomended" that to the CC, you are getting killed and then a third "opinion" comes from sum1 else and now you dunno who is who as you are getting killed and you see 2 tags now and zerg split in 3...

Must understand that grunts work at an operative/inmediate level, so the case is i dont expend any energy or thinking time on tactical and strategical fighting, im totally absorbed in casting retal, might stackin, block and group buff, enemy debuff and reflections on tag, so i have no idea wer im going and if im lost on commander, TS is my only light to get out alive :P

Im not complaining this is gonna happen, ppl want to lead, but CCs dont see to notice that grunts get confused when this happens, and then comes mapchat and TS that ppl doesnt follow cant take orders blabla, i heard this advice before:

If someone is tagged and you want give him advice, a PM is more useful i think in this terms as you wont confuse lil grunts as me :D

Besides that all is epic i love to YOLO so being outnumbered is like heaven to me :3

Im also noticing we lacking support ppl? im seeing lotso DPS, ranged but not so much support group with CC ppl in the fight, i dont play much maybe im on the wrong timezone :P

Also i wanted to share the 14 principles of management that i think transpose precisely to almost everything u trying to manage in a human group, this includes zerg fighting, wvw, spvp, football games, etc  :P please say thanks to good old Fayol :P

 

HENRI FAYOL 14 PRINCIPLES OF CLASSIC MANAGEMENT

  1. DIVISION OF WORK: Work should be divided among individuals and groups to ensure  that effort and attention are focused on special portions of the task. Fayol presented work specialization as the best way to use the human resources of the organization.                                                                                                     
  2. AUTHORITY: The concepts of Authority and responsibility are closely related. Authority was defined by Fayol as the right to give orders and the power to exact obedience. Responsibility involves being accountable, and is therefore naturally associated with authority. Whoever assumes authority also assumes responsibility.                                                                                                                                                        
  3. DISCIPLINE: A successful organization requires the common effort of workers. Penalties should be applied judiciously to encourage this common effort.                                                                                                                                                                                                           
  4. UNITY OF COMMAND: Workers should receive orders from only one manager.                                                                                              
  5. UNITY OF DIRECTION: The entire organization should be moving towards a common objective in a common direction.                                                                                                        
  6. SUBORDINATION OF INDIVIDUAL INTERESTS TO THE GENERAL INTERESTS: The interests of one person should not take priority over the interests of the organization as a whole.                                                                                                                                        
  7. REMUNERATION: Many variables, such as cost of living, supply of qualified personnel, general business conditions, and success of the business, should be considered in determining a worker’s rate of pay.                                                                                                                     
  8. CENTRALIZATION: Fayol defined centralization as lowering the importance of the subordinate role. Decentralization is increasing the importance. The degree to which centralization or decentralization should be adopted depends on the specific organization in which the manager is working.                                                                                                                                                                                                 
  9. SCALAR CHAIN: Managers in hierarchies are part of a chain like authority scale. Each manager, from the first line supervisor to the president, possess certain amounts of authority. The President possesses the most authority; the first line supervisor the least. Lower level managers should always keep upper level managers informed of their work activities. The existence of a scalar chain and adherence to it are necessary if the organization is to be successful.                                                                                                                                   
  10. ORDER: For the sake of efficiency and coordination, all materials and people related to a specific kind of work should be treated as equally as possible.                                                                                                                                                                                                 
  11. EQUITY: All employees should be treated as equally as possible.                                                                                                                 
  12. STABILITY OF TENURE OF PERSONNEL: Retaining productive employees should always be a high priority of management. Recruitment and Selection Costs, as well as increased product-reject rates are usually associated with hiring new workers.                                                                                                 
  13. INITIATIVE: Management should take steps to encourage worker initiative, which is defined as new or additional work activity undertaken through self direction.                                                                                                                                                                                 
  14. ESPIRIT DE CORPS: Management should encourage harmony and general good feelings among employees.

(Yes i am a business management mayor lol)

And last but not less important of all DONT RAGE, raging after a fight makes ppl have this uncomfortable feeling we hate and make ppl rq, so if u ever comanding and rage at TS and mapchat and then find ya zerg has diminished in numbers dont be amazed,

I always have thought that every fight is an opportunity to learn more on teamplay, and on zergs, random teamplay is at every corner, only way to know it is to feel it!!

I love to see names i know on the field, even if they dont know me, cus i have an idea what they can do, i know whos squishier, and that helps, but that is gained on time, playing together & having fun,

Dont we all forget we all here for having fun!!! We all want to win so lets use Theory Y and not Theory X, i ensure you all we will be more motivated and learn more on the lost games than ever :D

Courtesy of  Social psychologist Douglas McGregor of MIT:

Theory X

This assumes that employees are naturally unmotivated and dislike working, and this encourages an authoritarian style of management. According to this view, management must actively intervene to get things done. This style of management assumes that workers:

  • Dislike working.
  • Avoid responsibility and need to be directed.
  • Have to be controlled, forced, and threatened to deliver what's needed.
  • Need to be supervised at every step, with controls put in place.
  • Need to be enticed to produce results; otherwise they have no ambition or incentive to work.

X-Type organizations tend to be top heavy, with managers and supervisors required at every step to control workers. There is little delegation of authority and control remains firmly centralized.

McGregor recognized that X-Type workers are in fact usually the minority, and yet in mass organizations, such as large scale production environment, X Theory management may be required and can be unavoidable.

Theory Y

This expounds a participative style of management that is de-centralized. It assumes that employees are happy to work, are self-motivated and creative, and enjoy working with greater responsibility. It assumes that workers:

  • Take responsibility and are motivated to fulfill the goals they are given.
  • Seek and accept responsibility and do not need much direction.
  • Consider work as a natural part of life and solve work problems imaginatively.

This more participative management style tends to be more widely applicable. In Y-Type organizations, people at lower levels of the organization are involved in decision making and have more responsibility.

Source: http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newLDR_74.htm

 

Sorry for quoting so much, i just think is best way to explain it :P we managers love to tangibilize everything :3

Also sorry for colors im coorblind xD

Love ya all

-Greenstone[WF]

 

  

 

 

 

-Greenstone "Big Green Guy" / Richard Ryder "The Crimson Nutcase" / Viridis Caedo " Green Death" / Walla Quilcai Tuta "Necro Inka"
[VIG][HnB][Ren]

"Wars Come And Go, But My Soldiers Stay Eternal"

"In Hood We Trust"

By:

Commander synosius.9876
   Member of Seriously Over Rated

Replied On: 01/08/2015 at 06:31 PM

I get the feeling your talking about xpower.  hes always seems to be on a different page than the rest of the commanders, but lets save that topic until he gets on the forums.


what I rly want to talk about is your management and philosophy.


the internet is a new medium of human interaction, very few of the old principles apply and further more I believe this sub culture of ours is not well understood.  


authority: all of our powers of command are based on 2 things, loyalty and the promise of victory.  it is not the right to give orders but instead trust bestowed on another.

discipline: theres guild kick, ts ban and public shaming, none of which should be used and far too counter productive to be effective.

unity: more like wishful thinking.  everyone joins wvw with their own goals, a commander can only hope the workers will pursue similar objectives.  taking this concept further, we actually have to make our goals appear attractive, competing with the individuals desires.


remuneration: I think taz offered 5g to a mez for a portal once... there is no factor here in the sense of; if you dont preform you duties, you will get fired and be unable to pay your rent next month.


centralization: this shifts constantly.  where is authority derived from?  rly who ever has the best information, followed by the commander making use of the new situation.


scalar chain: I have put forth a saying to my guild... you decide your own involvement.  anyone who proves their own skill and is willing to work with others becomes an authority.  

at this point Ive poked enough holes into the management strategy that the structure collapses.  within the internet and the mmo settings, we have anonymity with no actual means of influencing another besides using words.  

When I started my SoR project I knew it would take a long time.  I begin with getting to know as many of the other recognized players as I can.  2nd display ability by doing all the things you want other ppl to imitate.  3rd phase is win and make it look easy, everyone luvs a winner and will remember you.  4th step is establish traditions of working hard to improve and learn.  5th and final objective; get others to repeat these steps.  

complete these 5 easy steps and congratulations you have created a successful server.  

so heres the final test of; am I spewing crazy all over the forums...

Do I, as Eko, have any authority?  

assuming you say yes, in some form  ^_^  the next question is why?  can I discipline or fire my workers, can I enforce any direction, unity or order?  is it just because Ive done these 5 things?

theory x - y

theres a spectrum of player types, on one end you have players who put forth alot of effort into playing well and eagerly involve themselves with higher forms of organization.  on the other side are players who are not skilled, lack understanding of the game and are fully content in their ignorance.  


this is worth understanding because the bulk of players will be somewhere in the middle and all they need to become a Y type is an invitation of some kind.  come be one of us!  we are skilled and knowledgeable.  all you need to do, to become like us, is accept the offer of friendship and the door is opened.

By:

Commander iTater.4209
   Member of Pink Quaggan Squad

Replied On: 01/08/2015 at 08:03 PM

Authority in this game, from how I've seen it work in person, is based on time out there tagged up. And winning fights, which always helps - people don't want to follow your commands if you're getting them wiped most of the time. I typically go five times in half an hour and you've lost me, so I aim not to wipe while I command - transform from "win fights" commander to "karma train" commander, take points and try not to run yourself into another group.

Professor Bannister, engineer

By:

Commander kittybock.5683
   Member of Primal Fury

Replied On: 01/09/2015 at 06:39 AM

Actually, Hara does have a valid point...though I've not been active in GW2, of late.  Was thinking this AM of hopping back to SOR, if you'd have me :)   Oh and Aiden, grats on BSA...just read that!!!

That said, in large-scale engagements, communication is the key to success.  When you have one main commander on, ie. Reset on a map, other than legit callouts for towers, etc, multiple commands do confuse the "grunts"  (as Hara called them). You may have 3 male voices or 2 female voices, and players get lost.   Example:  In the old days, when PF was helping out on GoM for a bit, we had another female in guild (a truly good player) that would talk when I did and was confusing for the new players there as most folks are not looking at Mumble overlay and do NOT recognize voices.  They don't realize it is not the commander...so when commander is calling for water or condis and another individual is, they can pop at wrong time, etc.  Counter-productive.  

 I've always played it friendly and chatty, unless the situation gets ugly.  That said, when you are following a commander, male or female, think about whether any additional callouts are really aiding the situation.   Even if that tag screws it up, a chain of command is still important...when you need to save the Garry, you need them to respond immediately...not stop and figure out which command is valid.  During those seconds....the Lord goes down, enemy is in.

Kitty



» Edited on: 2015-01-09 06:43:12

Kitty

Commander Kittaene
Guild Leader, Primal Fury

Commander Kittaene 80 Guard/ Kittaene 80 Warrior/ Kittybock 80 Ele/ Kittarnia 80 Ranger/ Kittienne 35 Mesmer

By:

Commander synosius.9876
   Member of Seriously Over Rated

Replied On: 01/09/2015 at 01:38 PM

Multiple commanders on the same map isnt something we've had to deal with but it has become a problem lately

By:

Harakael.5830
   Member of Gaiscioch na Rall

Replied On: 01/09/2015 at 06:05 PM

Hi all and tyvm for the kind responses :D

As i told im new to sharing in forums with the community and this is very encouraging,

Synosius, i love the comparisosn uve made, it seem fitting but i wouldnt take them literally but more methaphorical towards fulfillment on self satisfaction as social networks do on the net nowadays, our stymilus does differ from classical management from 1920s :P 

Also i wasnt talking about XPOWER precisely, he is one of the CC i used to play a lot on the start of year and one of the few i understand his gameplay style so i do not need to be in TS xD, actually this events had ocurred more than with any particular commander but more when we have multiple tags so i dont really know who is telling what as Kitty indicates,

About your question, you DO have authority, why i think is mainly becuase of "power of reference" and "recognition" myself if i c 2 tags and one is yours i will go cus i "know you" and ya logical thinking on battle seems to comply with mine,

About players types i like to think most SoR is theory Y as the encounter and ppl ive met along all this years since release countin a 1 year hiatus i had after being hacked :P

iTater i do comply than more wins help on authority but i must confess than being wiped helps a lot to understand teamplay if ya running the same group over time, as you learn to adapt situationally due to the party or player next to you, karma train commander is good if he can think and plan a covering on conquered spots i LOVE rienforcing towers and runing supply to build defensive siege, but i dont find many ppl that coordinates efforts in this so i end soloing fortyfiying a tower most o times, which is good but not the optimum,

And Kitty i rmmbr playing w you commanding when game just start :3, i do comply that multiple voices are confusing especially if u TS with music and dont recognize commanders voices on memory, being a non-english native speaker i think its more difficult to recognize voices even, we grunts r simple ppl!!! xD is like we are thinking "gimme something to shoot" and a bummer is to control our "bloodlust" so CC telling dont overspread or fall back is perfect :D after 30min we should be accustomed to CC voice probably :P

Yes chain of command must be clear if tag goes down, sometimes it feels like if you are in an ant colony when u gwt blowed with smoke, u spread and duno whats going on and finally i always think friendly talking is the way to play :D

Change is good remember, whats hard is getting out all the juice of the opportunity :D

Tyvm for all that responses

-Greenstone[WF]

 

 

 

-Greenstone "Big Green Guy" / Richard Ryder "The Crimson Nutcase" / Viridis Caedo " Green Death" / Walla Quilcai Tuta "Necro Inka"
[VIG][HnB][Ren]

"Wars Come And Go, But My Soldiers Stay Eternal"

"In Hood We Trust"


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